Go Home, False Teachers

This weekend, John MacArthur got in trouble for associating the words “Beth Moore” with the words “go home.”

That’s right. Two words.

In fact, it was part of a rapid-fire question-and-answer panel he was participating in. The moderator–a former comedian–gave each speaker two words, and they were only allowed to answer with two word responses.

…Now, some people see MacArthur’s statement and the ensuing controversy as the beginning of a dialog. Some of us appreciate the opporunity to listen to MacArthur’s perspective (including his more in-depth comments later in the panel). Some of us enjoy being challenged by theological questions, checking what the Scriptures say, and wrestling with the Spirit that leads to Truth.

But, unfortunately, a large and growing group of Christians don’t need to hear anything on this subject other than “A man told a woman to go Home.”

For them, that’s the END of the discussion rather than the beginning, because criticizing a woman in that tone is–like–automatically hateful and inexcusable…

And even if MacArthur’s Theology is pretty accurate, it doesn’t matter since he’s clearly just attacking Beth Moore for no other reason than being a powerful male who doesn’t want women to have voices… Or something like that, I guess?

I could share comment after comment after comment from women who are acting like their very existence is under attack, just because of what the Bible says about female pastors.  But let’s just consider this Girl Power Speech (written by a woman) that came to my attention yesterday.

I’ve included my notes in bold brackets:

I had to gather my thoughts after I listened to John MacArthur’s remarks on Beth Moore. My initial response was nausea, then anger, then sadness, then fire.
This type of exchange was common where I grew up, so it didn’t surprise me that there are pastors who believe these things. [What things? If you don’t quote him, then how can people judge his words for themselves?]

I have been removed from this type of dialogue for awhile now, so when I heard it again after over a decade, I was shocked and saddened. This is sin, through and through. [No, questioning a woman’s role as pastor is not a sin… Disagreeing with your perspective during the dialog is not sin.]

Let’s be real here, JMac’s remarks were not just shaming Moore. His words showed the state of his heart and was a slam against every woman who steps foot in a church. [Wow…. WOW. So quickly we’ve jumped from judging words that we haven’t seen to judging a HEART we haven’t seen! If all the women in Paul’s church said/wrote stuff like this, I can see why he asked them to be quiet.]

I know that God can and wants to work in John MacArthurs heart and in the hearts of every pastor in that room who laughed at the expense of a godly woman. [Google “begging the question.”]

I also know that God is a God of justice and we must call out lies when we see them for the sake of our friends, mothers, and daughters. [Does that include when it’s our friends, mothers, and daughters who need to be called out?]

When it comes down to it, I care about the opinion of one person; Jesus. [It sounds like you care pretty deeply about John MacArthur’s opinion, but okay…] What did Jesus do?

Scripture shows us that he engaged with women in theological discussions, taught women as his disciples, in His parables he included women (which was unheard of in his time), and he called out the voice of women. [Definitely true!]

Women stayed with Jesus at the cross.
Women were the first to share the good news of the gospel.
In the Bible women were military leaders, apostles, prophets, disciples, helped fund the ministry of the local church, and more.

[All of this is true.  And it has nothing to do with John MacArthur’s criticism of Beth Moore.]

It is time for women in the church to be allowed to freely use their gifts.
It’s time for women who feel called to lead in the church to be allowed to be who God made them to be. [Yes! And it’s time for women to stop confusing “feeling called” with BEING called to do whatever they want.]

Let’s stop forcing these gifted women to look outside of the local church for ministry.
When half of the church is told that who they are and what they have to offer has little value, the enemy applauds. [Nobody is saying Beth Moore has “little value.” But if women think the pastoral role is more “valuable” than other roles–and if they feel entitled to demand that particular job as some human right–then we’ve spotted the problem right here.]

The church needs women too. Full stop.

Let’s pray for men like MacArthur and the pastors in that room, and in the next breath lift up the woman next to us. [I will not “lift up” a false teacher just because she’s female…] 

Women, let’s direct our gaze to Christ and do the opposite of what MacArthur said. Let’s SHOW UP.

Well, I’m here, Ladies.

I’ve shown up because it’s clear that a WOMAN is going to have to help other women see when they’re being led astray by self-centered, envy-fueled Feminism. 🙂

But it’s not just me.

There are other female writers, speakers, and teachers who are part of this conversation–maybe even LEADING (gasp!) the discussion–because we recognize that men have the disadvantage of being assumed “misogynists” as soon as a woman gets offended.

Here’s an open letter to Beth Moore that was written by a half-dozen women last summer, after Beth started Tweeting questionable things about homosexuality. (She never really answered, maybe because she is more focused on what male critics are saying and doesn’t think female critics should be taken seriously?)

And this is an episode of the “Sheologians” podcast, in which a group of women explain the common areas of disagreement between Complimentarians and Egalitarians:

https://www.sheologians.com/women-behind-pulpit-bible-say/

[I strongly recommend you listen to that. ^^^ It’s thought-provoking.]

Women like Summer White and Joy Temby (and Rachel Jankovic and Bekah Merkle and Alissa Childers and Carmen Schober) are SHOWING UP to help their friends, sisters, and daughters become scholars of Scripture and worshipers of God rather than followers of the culture and worshipers of themselves

If you’re just going to share your feelings and hunches about a bunch of Bible-sounding stuff, it will be better for all of us if you just go home.

21 thoughts on “Go Home, False Teachers

  1. Mel Wild

    I have not kept up with the Beth Moore controversy so please excuse my ignorance, but I take it your position is that that her actual teaching is false in some areas, not that woman shouldn’t be pastors (?)

    While I cannot comment on her actual teachings without reading what she herself has said, I would respectfully disagree with MacArthur (and others) who say women cannot be pastors. It appears that the New Testament contradicts that idea. Women are just as qualified to teach false doctrine as men. 🙂

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    1. mrsmcmommy Post author

      I actually have a somewhat unusual perspective in that MOST people shouldn’t be pastors as we have come to define it. 🙂 “Professionals” who make their living delivering speeches in church every week? Nah… I’ve been influenced by Frank Viola in Pagan Christianity to be against the Institutional Church hierarchy, and I think 99% of our disagreements would be dealt with if we restructured our meetings altogether and explained what we MEAN by “pastor.”

      As far as we mean, “women should be allowed to MINISTER and convey the Gospel to the lost,” I completely agree. Actually, they are required to do that.

      It’s just a shame that Feminism has perverted so many of our Christian sisters who now think THEIR calling is mainly THEIR calling, rather than an opportunity to serve humbly wherever God truly wants them. Regardless of gender, entitlement and ego become huge issues for leaders after years of being deferred to as authorities…

      Actually, I say “regardless of gender,” but I think this becomes ESPECIALLY bad for women in Feminist cultures who are applauded for selfishness and Girl Power ideology, and then they’re held above reproach because criticism is misogyny.

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      1. Mel Wild

        I agree with you that most people shouldn’t be pastors. And who would want a career that’s mostly being misunderstood and underpaid anyway. 🙂

        Feminism, which smacks of identity politics, does seem to throw a wretch in biblical roles for women. I couldn’t agree more with that problem.

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      2. mrsmcmommy Post author

        I think that the same male/female temptations and pitfalls exist today the have existed from the beginning, and God made sure the authors of the Bible touched on many of them. Men require respect and must not forget love… Women should avoid gossip and nagging, and they should stay busy within their own small family groups to help avoid the temptations to do those things…
        We know that men are wise to stay away from one-on-one meetings with adoring fans who are not their wives and to lock down their computers instead of scrolling on certain parts of the internet late at night… And I think women are wise to be aware of their tendency to utterly take over discussions and mow down their critics when they’re given unrestricted “authority” over certain areas.
        We like to say, “well, those examples can apply to BOTH men and women”–and they can, of course. But I can’t just ignore the tendencies I’ve witnessed. Eve wanted to wise like God, and Adam was content to sit back and let her try. I think all of that can tell us something about our natural impulses. 🙂

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      3. Mel Wild

        “And I think women are wise to be aware of their tendency to utterly take over discussions and mow down their critics when they’re given unrestricted “authority” over certain areas.”

        I believe it’s that propensity that Paul was dealing with in his pastoral admonitions to Timothy. He wasn’t making doctrines on women in general; he was dealing with particular women who were usurping authority they weren’t given. However, Paul mentions women in other places, such as Romans, who were obviously given such authority.

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      4. mrsmcmommy Post author

        That has been my understanding as well… My dad has made the observation before: RELUCTANT leaders are often the best ones. We never should be too quick to advocate for our own “right” to be in the spotlight.

        And it also bears mentioning that there IS a spotlight for these Feminist cheerleaders. Beth Moore and other female Christian celebrities are not underpaid and underappreciated. Moore, Hatmaker, Held-Evans, Bolz-Weber, et all. have profited in both money and popularity for decades…

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      5. Mel Wild

        It’s very true that some make a lot of money. And that skews the fact that 90% of pastors are underpaid and undervalued (probably at least in part why 4,000 leave the ministry each year). I personally took an immediate 60% pay cut when I left the corporate world in 2005. But I did it voluntarily because I knew that’s what God wanted me to do. And I don’t regret my decision. But I’m still not up the income level I was at in 1990! LOL! The truth is, almost all don’t get into the ministry for the money. It’s the celebrity few that gives it a bad name.

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  2. buckyinky

    I just listened to the podcast your family did on this. Enjoyable as always.

    It strikes me that the problem this brouhaha highlights is a lack of general segregation between the sexes. There are things about the world of men that women (I suppose with a few exceptions) will never understand. The familiarity between the sexes that has come along with the modern egalitarian abolishing of a natural segregation has given us the illusion that there is not, and should not be, any mystery to be had in relating to the opposite sex. In so doing both sexes have lost a valuable teacher.

    Therefore women are under the illusion that they comprehend all there is to know about the privileges and responsibility of masculine leadership. “I’ve been in the world of men,” say such women, “I can tell what’s going on there, and I can do that!” Under such an illusion it becomes an “injustice” for them not to be able to participate to their heart’s desire in what is proper only to men.

    The other side of this is that men need to be segregated from women because they are too squeamish about direct confrontation with women and shouldn’t really be expected to do so I suspect. It takes a special fortitude for a man to correct his wife and/or daughters when necessary; this is his proper role vis-a-vis women, and takes all of his store of energy. It is unreasonable to expect him to exercise this role with women in general, and therefore he should be kept away from them, lest it further the illusion described above for lack of resistance from any men. Yes, in a properly-ordered society Beth Moore’s husband would direct her to the “sidelines” before John MacArthur would ever have had the chance to know who she is.

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  3. Meredith

    Thanks for reading it! Here’s a couple more links, if you’re interested. (1) https://alliworthington.com/podcast/bethmoore Just a fun podcast, but I think it puts Beth’s heart and mission on full display (bonus – a hilarious story about a wardrobe issue at a speaking event). (2) https://alliworthington.com/podcast/katebowler The same podcast hosts Kate Bowler (I linked her earlier on your “The god Who Speaks Lies” post). Around 30:40, Kate articulates the intricacies and challenges of Beth’s position in ministry. Last thing, a question for you: When you mention “women like that shouldn’t be speaking in church” because they are speaking out of “ignorance and emotion” around minute 43 of the “Go Home Beth Moore” podcast, are you including Beth Moore in that statement?

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    1. mrsmcmommy Post author

      I don’t remember exactly what I was referring to in that particular podcast… Or even recording that particular podcast at this moment. Lol. But I can tell you that I believe anyone who prioritizes the emotion, tone, or “heart” of a belief system, rather than its truthfulness, should not be speaking in church. We’ve already got enough of that, and it’s resulting in a whole bunch of very nice but Theologically shallow Christians. Today’s Church is encouraged to focus on relationships peace/unity, which really appeals to many female ministers and their followers. (Most of us don’t want to appear confrontational.) But Truth should matter.
      If Beth won’t explain what was UNTRUE about the things she said years ago, then I really don’t care how nice and funny she is. 🙂 I know that may sound shocking when it’s said in church circles, and I don’t mean to be contentious. But the Truth is too important to get distracted by how sweetly and articulately a female pastor dodges serious questions.

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      1. Meredith

        My interpretation of her explanatory blog post is that the untrue piece of what was originally published was her commentary singling out “same-sex sin as particularly satanic.”

        I wholeheartedly agree with you about the absolute importance of the truth. That’s why I commented on this blog post to begin with.

        As I’m sure you know, God’s Word says “you will know them by their fruits.” One fruit of Beth Moore’s ministry has been my growing desire to know God’s Word. Since God’s Word is the ultimate source of truth and her life & labors have pointed me to it, I am unwavering in my support of her ministry.

        To me, discussions about progressive tweets, who’s hanging out with who, etc. do not progress the knowledge of God’s truth. In my opinion, using words like “ignorant” and “stupid” to describe other women trying to pursue the truth is equally unproductive.

        This exchange reminds me of 2 Timothy 2:

        “So flee youthful passions and pursue righteousness, faith, love, and peace, along with those who call on the Lord from a pure heart. Have nothing to do with foolish, ignorant controversies; you know that they breed quarrels. And the Lord’s servant must not be quarrelsome but kind to everyone, able to teach, patiently enduring evil, correcting his opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth, and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, after being captured by him to do his will.”

        I apologize for my quarrelsome behavior. Thank you for engaging with me in a respectful & informative way.

        Blessings,
        Meredith

        Liked by 1 person

      1. Meredith

        Her response states: “I hold firmly to a traditional Christian sexual ethic and continue to believe the Bible sets apart marriage as a covenant between a man and a woman.” Is this insufficient in your opinion?

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      2. mrsmcmommy Post author

        Yes, it seems like obfuscation considering all of us are still confused about how the things she removed from her book were NOT traditional Christian sexual ethics. She didn’t clarify what she means about speaking “her words and not God’s.” If she’s concerned about writing things beyond God’s words, she should stop blogging and tweeting altogether and just sell Bibles. 🙂 But, if she’s going to keep being a “traditional Christian” author, she’s going to need to address exactly what has changed since she first published that God can deliver homosexuals from their sin.

        https://justinpeters.org/2019/07/my-thoughts-on-beth-moores-blog-post/

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      3. Meredith

        By “her words and not God’s,” I think she is referring to the statement that she makes next: “I exceeded Scripture and singled out same-sex sin as particularly satanic.” In my opinion, she addressed exactly what had changed since she first published the book: “I have had many years to test the fruit of what I wrote and have seen over and over again that numerous readers, who had gone to this chapter with their struggles, came to my words and proceeded no further. My words had kept them from God’s words. That, to me, is a pretty serious stumbling block.”

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    1. mrsmcmommy Post author

      I believe it’s still on the market, so you may have to buy the Kindle version… Unfortunately, it’s very easy to say “I hold to traditional Christian ethics,” but when you’re tweeting progressive talking points and hanging out with progressive pastors and start REMOVING things that traditional Christians believe, you have to be more specific. 🤷‍♀️ I appreciate the link to her blog post, though. 🙂 It’s never bad to have more resources to consider.

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      1. Meredith

        How much exposure do you have to Beth’s ministry? Have you ever listened to any of her content, read any of her books, or completed any of her Bible studies?

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      2. mrsmcmommy Post author

        I graduated from a Baptist high school in 2006. Beth Moore might as well have been a fellow student with how much all my teachers loved her and used her resources. I was in the middle of a Beth Moore Bible study during my postpartum depression battle. And I’ve listened to and read everything that has come across my desk from her lately, including the post you just shared. So thanks again for that! 🙂

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