Why Shouldn’t I Kill You?

Six hours ago, the story broke that someone opened fire in a middle school less than an hour from where I live.

I don’t live in Santa Fe, Texas. (That was last week.)

I don’t live in Palmdale, California. (That was the week before.)

I don’t live in Lexington Park or Parkland or Bentland. (Those were earlier this year.)

I live in Indiana–where two people were shot in a school six hours ago.


 

Most of the people in my newsfeed are saying: “This has gotten too close now!”

“Where will it end?”

“What should we do?”

And I completely agree with those who are telling parents it starts at home.

A man named Cody Jefferson posted to Facebook this week with the headline “Why My Kids Won’t Be Shooting Up Schools,” and he outlined the importance of teaching kids self-discipline and teamwork.   (You can read his post by clicking here.)

I don’t have a single problem with anything being said by the many people who believe it’s a parent’s job to teach their children the value of human life.

I just want to take it a step further, parents: 

Can you explain to your children why?


 

Jefferson said: “Our boys need to understand the rules of the game and respect boundaries.”

AMEN!

But, why should they play by the rules?

Jefferson said: “I will not leave [my son] to find a version of himself and figure out what ‘man’ means to him.”

AMEN!

But, why should his son care what “man” means to anyone else?

Jefferson said:

I will TEACH you how to lose and learn.

I will TEACH you how to dream and work.

I will TEACH you how to add value and make money.

I will TEACH you how to treat a woman.

I will TEACH you what a gun is and what it’s for.

I will TEACH you what it is to be a PRESENT FATHER.

I will TEACH you what it is to be a MAN.

And you, son, will be the PROTECTOR of yourself, your family, and your community….

That’s beautiful! Wonderful! Another hearty AMEN from me!

But teaching a boy “how” is only half the equation.

The very last line of Jefferson’s speech is the most important of all. He writes “because that is who we, as men, are called to be.”


 

Friends, our children go to school and learn they evolved, from nothing, for absolutely no reason.   The word “purpose” is considered religious and irrelevant.

They’re encouraged to create meaning for themselves, and not to ask WHY in the world “meaning” is a human need in the first place.

So then, when those little blobs of excited chemicals feel angry and worthless, they start shooting at other little blobs of excited chemicals, and our Humanist society looks around, scratching our collective heads, yelling, “This shooting thing is getting out of hand!”

Do you have answers for why those young animals shouldn’t kill each other?

I talk with Atheists all the time–and they agree point for point on what the problem is.  But go ahead and ask them to explain “why.”  Just ask.  Eventually they will say you’re insane just for having that question, and they will advise you to see a shrink.

(That ought to make a depressed teenager feel even better about himself, amiright?)

Four years ago, I suffered an episode of depression/anxiety that had me holding my husband’s gun in my hand and wondering why I shouldn’t use it on myself.

Would you have been able to give me an answer for why I shouldn’t?

Parents, do we plan to give the reason “because I said” for the rest of our children’s lives?

That’s essentially the Atheist argument, you know? They change “because I said” into “because WE said,” as if the opinion of a million humans is more powerful and authoritative than the opinion of one.

Don’t shoot…just because?

Just because I said so?

 

Our public schools have nothing to offer our hurting, questioning children, because “religion” isn’t welcome.  By law, teachers are allowed to tell students WHAT to do, but they can’t give solid, soul-quenching reasons why.

For my part, I would love to help parents think through this, so they can help their children process it as well.

Why shouldn’t an angry male mammal thin his herd a little, by shooting in a nearby school?

Until a child’s education includes a good answer to that question, this problem will only get worse.

56 thoughts on “Why Shouldn’t I Kill You?

  1. sklyjd

    This guy does have a lot of sense and makes very valid points, however I just had to point out the elephant in the room.

    “All very well to heap this problem onto parents and fathers in particular even though you bring up many relevant points, however in Australia, New Zealand and the UK kids are doing exactly what your kids do in America and they do not feel the need to shoot up schools. Lack of gun control is the main problem, time to face facts.”

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      1. mrsmcmommy Post author

        Changing the subject? Are you serious?
        Read the post title, genius. You’re the one changing the subject.

        But I appreciate you coming over here to prove my point.

        HEY, THEISTS, PLEASE PAY SPECIAL ATTENTION TO ATHEISTS LIKE THE ONE ABOVE, WHEN CHALLENGED TO GIVE A REASON TO CARE ABOUT THIS STUFF. As you can see, the only thing they are capable of doing is pointing fingers elsewhere.

        “I care because I’m human.” 😂

        He means he’s a sack of excited chemicals.

        Liked by 1 person

      2. sklyjd

        “He means he’s a sack of excited chemicals.”

        Wow, you really have an expressive way with words, my sack of chemicals does get excited on occasions, but I will not go into that.

        OK, back to the subject of why kids shoot up schools. Do you believe more guns are the answer for your country and if every man and woman had a gun on them at all times from an age of 18 and above at all times it would decrease the school shootings and overall violent crime creating a safer environment?

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      3. sklyjd

        What would you have told me, when I was holding a gun in my hand and contemplating using it?

        First thing I would ask if it was in Australia would be “where the hell did you get that gun?”

        Of course, that would be a moot point if you have a gun in your hand or you have the barrel in your mouth, but of course anyone would want to try and talk you out of your depressiveness.

        Think of this, if your household did not have a gun this scenario would not eventuate and if you have a loving family, a home, your health and a future do you not think you are being very selfish? Of course, you have a mental health issue and there is professional help and this case would warrant that process.

        “Our public schools have nothing to offer our hurting, questioning children, because “religion” isn’t welcome. By law, teachers are allowed to tell students WHAT to do, but they can’t give solid, soul-quenching reasons why.”

        First of all, teachers are there to educate our children in the basic subjects, they are not there or paid to undertake parenting roles or promote religions or sexual advice and any soul-quenching answers etc.
        I can agree with you to some extent that religion can be a saviour for some individuals, just as psychotherapy, hypnosis, sports, boy scouts, stamp collecting clubs and even a relationship or any other treatment, exercise or pastime you can think of, however religion is not the magic that you think it is, because as you have seen even the home schooled with a dedicated religious upbringing can go off the rails big time.

        It appears to me that the accumulated pressures that kids endure today from media influences, sexual identification, financial pressures, drug and alcohol issues along with peer, parental relationships, divorces and the academic performance pressures seem to be overwhelming them and affecting our children’s mental health more than ever before. Therefore, I cannot see how indoctrination of any religion with the added pressure on children to conform to a doctrine that includes added pressure of guilt, confronting evil and avoiding hell can be very helpful to every child’s mental health as we are all different, nor can I see that a saturation of guns in the child’s environment to be very helpful in this situation either.

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      4. mrsmcmommy Post author

        This is a word salad, and you didn’t answer my question.
        You would seriously ask “Where did you get that gun?”

        Or you would tell me to see a shrink? (Just like I said in the oped?)

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    1. mrsmcmommy Post author

      You told me you would “try to talk me out of my depressiveness.” That doesn’t answer the question.

      What would you SAY to someone wanting to harm themselves or other people, about WHY they shouldn’t?

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      1. sklyjd

        “What would you SAY to someone wanting to harm themselves or other people, about WHY they shouldn’t?”

        Is this supposed to be a trick question, or you just want me to waste my time listing all the reasons I can think of?

        The fact is most of us have the brain capacity to understand that life is the most precious thing we possess, therefore we should protect it above all things, so to answer your stupid question, I would first disarm you if practical and make sure you have no access to weapons, ask what the problem is and explain that it can be fixed but nothing can be done if you are dead and rattle off all the usual reasons that come to mind such as family as to why death is not an answer for anything.

        Of course, if you believed you would go to heaven to see your dead relations or believed it was God’s wishes for you to die or to kill people there is not much more to say because you would be radicalised and have given up on life already.

        What would you say?

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      2. mrsmcmommy Post author

        I’m demonstrating that Atheists don’t have satisfying answers to the most basic human questions.

        When someone is on an existential quest for meaning, the only thing the godless can offer is drugs to make you forget how random and purposeless you are.

        Still haven’t found an Atheist who can talk someone out of violence without pushing pills.

        I would tell a suicidal person they have a reason for being here, of course. The Universe isn’t random, and neither are you. 🙂

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      3. sklyjd

        “the only thing the godless can offer is drugs to make you forget how random and purposeless you are.”

        “Still haven’t found an Atheist who can talk someone out of violence without pushing pills.”

        Why would you jump to such weird conclusions? You have claimed something that is immeasurable. For your record I have never taken drugs for anything and most people I know are atheists who avoid them like the plague.

        Depression is without a doubt a disease that can be managed with or without pills, however I believe it is an easy way out for some people these days in as much as they give up to easily because life has become a little tougher than it was and if you convince yourself that you are unhappy and depressed you will become a chronic case and pills may be your only hope at the end of the day.

        I think also however if you get to the stage of contemplating the use of a weapon on yourself or on other people maybe the only way to manage such tendencies is with drugs, because minimising the potential risk to life would be mandatory.

        “I would tell a suicidal person they have a reason for being here, of course. The Universe isn’t random, and neither are you.”

        The universe is speeding up, not slowing down, this may have been caused by something happening about 5 billion years ago. A creationist idea next to our true science just pales into the myth that it is. 😊

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      4. mrsmcmommy Post author

        I’m not sure why you feel the need to be dishonest by claiming “most of the Atheists you know avoid drugs.” Most PEOPLE (both Theist and Atheist) will take some form of antidepressant at some point in their lives… and most of them don’t have the guts/honesty to admit their brains aren’t broken… human brains just get sad when they don’t have meaning.

        Cases of so-called mental illness, especially depression/anxiety, are increasing at an alarming rate because humans NEED to know they matter, and Atheists have stolen the cosmic purpose away by saying we’re random accidents.

        It’s just like you said: “Something” happened, which brought us here about 5 billion years ago. But you would rather tell yourself all Creationists are idiots because some of them believe “Something” happened only 6,000 years ago.

        I don’t care when the “something” happened, Steve. I care that suicides/homocides continue to rise, and you keep trying to bait me into a discussion about how stupid your ideas about Creationism are. (I agree, by the way. The Creator, as you imagine it in your head, is pretty stupid.)

        You Atheists have NO answers for why humans shouldn’t kill each other. You just take people’s guns away and shove pills down their throat and hope that makes them stop asking why they’re here.

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      5. sklyjd

        “because humans NEED to know they matter, and Atheists have stolen the cosmic purpose away by saying we’re random accidents.”

        Your writing made some sense up to this point. Please tell me how many hundreds of professional psychiatrists, neuroscientists and counsellors etc. claim what you say is true.

        You are only scratching the surface anyway. The brain is far more complicated than you believe, and it is the place where all the so called gods exist.

        I have a theory that if someone is a YEC and\or a flat Earth believer it is impossible to give them credibility for anything they may say.

        “You Atheists have NO answers for why humans shouldn’t kill each other. You just take people’s guns away and shove pills down their throat and hope that makes them stop asking why they’re here.”

        This statement is so wrong it makes my head spin. The difference here is you blame atheists for not providing a creator in the story of belonging, and you narrowly minded believe that is the magic answer for everything and everybody. It may work for some who believe in a god, however I would not be surprised if religion has also screwed up the minds of some of these people as well, look what happens to religious fanatics. Atheists in fact will reinforce the fact that this life is more precious than anything because once you are dead there is nothing, this is why you live life to the full.

        The atheists I mix with do look after their health and sure enough we all have a pill for this and that on occasions but do not pop Prozac type pills for mental problems because we see what happens, we have a problem in our country and most of the Western world with excessive prescription drugs. My friends’ who are atheist and theist are more “old school.” A problem arises, we harden up a bit more and tackle it, we do not run crying to the doctor’s surgery.

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      6. sklyjd

        I do not exactly know what I would say to prevent someone from self-harming themselves if I was not prepared for it. I know my daughter and a couple of her friends at school did a stupid childish act of lightly cutting across their wrists just enough to draw a little blood so to form a scab. I had my piece of verbal with her and I believe it was seen by them as possibly a cool thing to shock people with considering they had been shocked by a girl I think they knew who had tried it for real.

        As communication with my daughter who was 15 years of age last year and even now a year later is very one sided, however I do now believe and hope she has got over this sort of stupidity.

        It is amazing how they can change attitudes to some things so quickly, therefore with what I know about teens I think getting them through the muddled world of their mid teenage emotional issues with some compassion and most of all good advice is all one can do.

        I am thankful my daughter is not a constant trouble maker because this would make the job so much harder and my answer to your question would be to treat what they say with interest but point out what is wrong with their thinking and a point I made with my daughter was that suicide is a cowardly act that hurts many people and a detrimental act for many other reasons.

        I do not believe troubled teenagers are going to ask specifically what is the meaning of life regarding spiritual and religious aspects or what is after death. Their meaning of life selfishly involves themselves only, in some cases they can have extreme emotional reactions based mostly on their own current assessment of their life that includes friends, teachers, parents and mentors etc. And they especially worry about what people think of them here and now on Earth.

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      7. mrsmcmommy Post author

        I’m assuming kids believe what they’re taught in Biology class and by their Secular Humanist teachers/parents.

        This is Richard Dawkins: “A foreign publisher of my first book confessed the he could not sleep for three nights after reading it, so troubled was he by what he saw as its cold, bleak message. Others have asked me how I can bear to get up in the mornings? A teacher from a distant country wrote to me reproachfully that a pupil had come to him in tears after reading the same book, because it had persuaded her that life was empty and purposeless. He advised her not to show the book to any of her friends, for fear of contaminating them with the same nihilistic pessimism…”

        Or, if your daughter becomes familiar with Peter Atkins, he refers to humans as “Children of Chaos.” (He also wrote, “the deep structure of change is decay. At root, there is only corruption, and the unstemmable tide of chaos. Gone is purpose; all that is left is direction. This is the bleakness we have to accept as we peer deeply and dispassionately into the heart of the Universe.”)

        So–would you say these Atheists are also “wrong” with their thinking? Why is selfishness “wrong”? (Just because you say so?) What do you mean by a “trouble-maker” child? One who asks too many questions? Or one who takes your beliefs about the Universe to their logical conclusion? Why is being “cowardly” wrong? You also brought up hurting other people AGAIN, even though the title is “Why Shouldn’t I Kill You?”

        You have no reason.
        Perhaps you’ve been brainwashed by society to believe you really are important and other humans really are important and life is “precious.” Maybe your daughter won’t recognize those inconsistencies in her life, but my kids certainly would someday. They would THINK about the idea that we are cosmic accidents, and they would laugh at the adults who think it MEANS something.

        P.S. You better keep your daughter away from Atheist Jon Casimir, too: 😉 “Here’s what I think. There is no meaning of life. The whole thing is a gyp, a never-ending corridor to nowhere. What is passed off as an all-important search is basically just a bunch of philosophers scrabbling about on their knees, trying to find a lost sock in the cosmic laundromat…”

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      8. sklyjd

        “I’m assuming kids believe what they’re taught in Biology class and their Secular Humanist teachers/parents. “

        Of course, they believe biology, why shouldn’t they. What would you want taught to doctors and nurses?

        “He advised her not to show the book to any of her friends, for fear of contaminating them with the same nihilistic pessimism…”

        I have read this Richard Dawkins passage before, and it is written to highlight how ridiculous this Christian concept of purpose is and how screwed up this child and the teachers’ brains are. Nihilistic belief means rejecting religious and moral principles in the belief that life is meaningless. This teacher has a warped opinion of atheists and it is a falsehood to suit an ideology obviously without understanding what atheists are. This adult would never be allowed to be a teacher in Australia.

        “if your daughter becomes familiar with Peter Atkins, he refers to humans as “Children of Chaos.” (He also wrote, “the deep structure of change is decay. At root, there is only corruption, and the unstemmable tide of chaos. Gone is purpose; all that is left is direction. This is the bleakness we have to accept as we peer deeply and dispassionately into the heart of the Universe.”)”

        You get so far of track with your ideologies you make everything more complicated than it really is. I really think Atkins described teenage attitudes and behaviour quite well as “Children of Chaos.” But the unstemmable tide of chaos and corruption? Give me a break, this guy is the ultimate doom merchant. The purpose to life is here and now on planet Earth, living and loving life to the fullest while you can, not being subservient your whole life to mythical spirits or looking forward to a non-existent eternal life or burning in a bullshit hell.

        “So–would you say these Atheists are also “wrong” with their thinking?

        Nobody, atheists or theists, psychologists and any professional in these fields do not and cannot always get it right and never will because of the diversity of the human mind. There is no magic answer to any of these questions.

        “Why is selfishness “wrong”? (Just because you say so?)”

        I was indicating that this is just part of the teenage attitudes, it is something they mostly grow out of, but it is something you have to contend with as a parent.

        “What do you mean by a “trouble-maker” child? One who asks too many questions? Or one who takes your beliefs about the Universe to their logical conclusion?”

        I have friends who have had teenagers who have got themselves into a heap of trouble and I count myself lucky my daughter has kept herself out of it. I love it when she asks me questions, however it is not often enough.

        Teenagers in general do not bother themselves with this obsession you have about the meaning of life as I have previously explained. Maybe you believe that is the main reason in America for teenage shooters, but I doubt you will find any professionals that will agree with you. It is different here in Australia, where many of us are heathens because no religion has the dominant role in life and the religious families I know would never claim to everybody that they have all the answers. I expect we are probably a more diverse and accommodating country regarding views and opinions than America is.

        “Why is being “cowardly” wrong? You also brought up hurting other people AGAIN, even though the title is “Why Shouldn’t I Kill You?”

        Think seriously about if your child at 15 or 16 takes their own life. How devastating and hurting would it be for you? They die, you never see them again, no life, no grandchildren, nothing. Is this not one of the most selfish and arguably cowardly things they can do to themselves and the whole family, friends and community? Because they cannot step up and confront the facts of life as we all have to do it is a cowardly act to take your life.

        At these ages their hormones are crazy, thinking is often illogical and random or quite bizarre, this is why you have to confront them with understanding their situation but also offering sound advice to get them through this period of time of their lives. A mix of compassion, solid advice and pointing out the consequences of their actions is I believe a good foundation, however I do not claim it is fail proof and the answer to all teenage problems, often professional help may be an answer.

        “Perhaps you’ve been brainwashed by society to believe you really are important and other humans really are important and life is “precious.”

        Are you serious? Perhaps I have I taken this passage out of context, considering we want our kids to believe this so they do not harm themselves or others, don’t you agree?

        “They would THINK about the idea that we are cosmic accidents, and they would laugh at the adults who think that MEANS something.”

        Do your own brain washing, however do not hold your breath if your kids are free thinkers.

        “You better keep your daughter away from Atheist Jon Casimir, too:”

        I do not protect my daughter from anybody’s idealistic views, this is the way of true atheists, we do not indoctrinate kids with ideologies this just screws with their brains even more, we do however encourage them to think and make up their minds for themselves.

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      9. mrsmcmommy Post author

        This isn’t “teenage” foolishness. Students are taking what their teachers have taught them about randomness to the logical conclusion.

        There is no “up” in outerspace. We have to build something to give us a foundation, and then we can say “That way is ‘up’!” because it’s relative to the thing we build. But you Secular Humanists have no foundation. If humans of the future want to tear down your beliefs about morality and what humans “should” do, there will be nothing to stop them.

        It’s not because they need to outgrow their silliness. It’s because they’re smarter than you. You keep trying to tell them to shape up, but the Nihilistic philosophers have already proven there is no such thing. THERE IS NO UP (except what society has commanded).

        Those suicidal/homocidal teens REALLY ARE free-thinkers. And it ought to terrify you.

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      10. sklyjd

        “This isn’t “teenage” foolishness. Students are taking what their teachers have taught them about randomness to the logical conclusion.”

        You are trying to connect dots that do not exist. They simply go to school to learn. Teaching involves presenting the evidence and facts that are currently known of our existing world, so they can eventually find a job or a career. This is not possible from the teachings of a dozen different religious ideologies. They are taught by professional teachers what is accepted by the world in scientific terms by the leading scientists and engineers of the most advanced industrial nations.

        Look at the Middle Eastern countries where Islam is taught basically as the leading subject matter, is this the sort of backward society you would like to live in?

        “But you Secular Humanists have no foundation.”

        Why do you need a foundation of gods and religions? Are you so insecure you cannot think and live for yourselves as you want to? Can you not work out the difference between what does not exist in reality and what is here right now? Can you not keep the spiritual beings, gods or deities you have as a personal belief and not force them onto children?

        “If humans of the future want to tear down your beliefs about morality and what humans “should” do, there will be nothing to stop them.”

        If you are saying that you do not believe in basic human nature to exist without Christian morals we will all become immoral creatures, I will totally reject that. Who is going to convince me my morality is wrong? There are tribes of people around the world who have never heard of Christianity who live in complete harmony with each other, and who in fact can teach us a few lessons in moral and social skills.

        “the Nihilistic philosophers have already proven there is no such thing.”

        How can philosophers prove anything? “In philosophy there are no proofs; there are not theorems; and there are no questions which can be decided, Yes or No.” (ref Edip Yuksel a Kurdish American intellectual and professor of philosophy.)

        “Those suicidal/homocidal teens REALLY ARE free-thinkers. And it ought to terrify you.”

        It does, but what terrifies me more is the ideologies people like you want to shove down their young throats as the answer to everything.

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  2. BbBennett

    Game over soulless meat puppet!

    Your rejection of philosophy instantly destroys any faith you have that science is even real, let alone is capable of answering important questions about the meaning of life or whether it has meaning at all.

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  3. BbBennett

    The quick answer to the question must be: There is no scientific (materially explainable/provable) way to objectively make the claim that shooting someone is wrong.

    If the atheist/humanist/materialist truly believes that answers to exestential questions can only be found experimentation and measurement of data points, they are self-falsifying their own hypothesis.

    The only way to rectify the problem is to use the exestential, non-material tools humans have for applying THOUGHT to our material reality; logic (logos, the word) and reason.

    If school shootings were only a scientific or data driven phenomena, then we could easily crunch a few numbers, and within a reasonable margin of error? Predict all of the next school shooters within weeks or months of them committing the act.

    But we can’t because the problem isn’t material. It’s philosophical and spiritual and theological.

    You atheists can’t even argue against yourselves if you reject philosophy, logic and reason like you reject theology.

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    1. sklyjd

      “There is no scientific (materially explainable/provable) way to objectively make the claim that shooting someone is wrong.”

      This is such a stupid claim. Living human beings and all living things have the inherent understanding of death, understanding that death is a permanent condition that cannot be reversed, and we will all fight to the death to hang on to life for as long as we can. Humans know it is wrong to kill, just as humans know to nurture their young, it is basic survival in the animal kingdom.

      “But we can’t because the problem isn’t material. It’s philosophical and spiritual and theological.”

      The problems are also not of philosophical or spiritual deities but are real life issues that are associated with teenagers mental health.

      The risk of suicide increases dramatically when in their teenage years and when teens have access to firearms at home as nearly 60% of all suicides in the United States are committed with a gun.
      78% of school shooters had a history of suicide attempts or suicidal ideations prior to their attack. Many of the attackers (61%) also had a documented history of experiencing symptoms of extreme depression or desperation, prior to an attack. There are a range of factors relating to mental health such as 71% of the attackers were victims of bullying and this is a well-known cause of teenage depression and suicide.

      Read this, it is very good.
      https://www.counseling.org/docs/default-source/vistas/school-shootings-and-student-mental-health.p

      “You atheists can’t even argue against yourselves if you reject philosophy, logic and reason like you reject theology.”

      Atheists recognise Logic and reason tell us that positive action for psychological and emotional well-being is more help than theological philosophy for repairing mental health.

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  4. BbBennett

    “Living human beings and all living things have the inherent understanding of death, understanding that death is a permanent condition that cannot be reversed, and we will all fight to the death to hang on to life for as long as we can.”

    ONLY human beings have this understanding. All other living things do not. That’s why we don’t call other living things… BEINGS. (Dog beings, flower beings, etc.)

    My claim was right on and yours was half stupid. Unless or until you provide evidence to PROVE your claim that ALL LIFE knows it’s wrong to kill or knows morality at all.

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  5. sklyjd

    “Living human beings and all living things have the inherent understanding of death, understanding that death is a permanent condition that cannot be reversed, and we will all fight to the death to hang on to life for as long as we can.”

    Plants were not intended to be included when I wrote this earlier comment.

    “ONLY human beings have this understanding. All other living things do not. That’s why we don’t call other living things… BEINGS. (Dog beings, flower beings, etc.)”

    Are you completely sure of this? Have you ever seen lions chase their next meal and wonder why the animals run away or fight back? Do you not understand that the most capable animals will also protect their young with the same zeal? Even insects such as spiders and cockroaches will try to survive by running away.

    Humans are classified as mammals because humans have the same distinctive features found in all members of this large group.

    All mammals (including humans) have the same distinctive features. These include: fur or hair growing from the skin, mammary glands that, in females, produce milk for feeding the young, three bones (the malleus, incus and stapes) in the middle ear for transmitting sound to the inner ear, a single bone (the dentary) on each side of the lower jaw.

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    1. BbBennett

      You are arguing natural instinct and I am arguing for knowledge of “being”. Humans are the only living BEINGS that can look in the mirror and say “I am!”

      Humans have intrinsic value because we have a soul… for one thing.

      Your saying that all living things strive to live. Yeah. It’s called survival of the fittest and there’s no exestential reason in that natural law, that says why I shouldn’t shoot you. (Or tear you apart and eat you like the gazelle I had last week. With a nice cianti.)

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  6. BbBennett

    If our morals come from nature, because we’re all mammals and have similar body parts, then there is nothing wrong with me killing you in a lion-like battle for dominance, killing your children and raping your mate so that the more dominant traits of my obviously superior gene pool will continue.

    Change my mind. 😎

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  7. sklyjd

    Your original statement back a couple of comments was this:

    “The quick answer to the question must be: There is no scientific (materially explainable/provable) way to objectively make the claim that shooting someone is wrong.”

    You have basically again claimed the same thing:

    “Your saying that all living things strive to live. Yeah. It’s called survival of the fittest and there’s no exestential reason in that natural law, that says why I shouldn’t shoot you. (Or tear you apart and eat you like the gazelle I had last week. With a nice cianti.)”

    And this:

    “If our morals come from nature, because we’re all mammals and have similar body parts, then there is nothing wrong with me killing you in a lion-like battle for dominance, killing your children and raping your mate so that the more dominant traits of my obviously superior gene pool will continue.”

    There are scientific explanations as to what is right or wrong. Regarding the survivability of our species we have evolved into a social animal and on the constitution of human nature are built the constitutions of human societies.

    As primitive cave men we used to kill each other, rape our neighbours’ females and pillage their property because it threatened our own survival. Like lions we had territories, a hunting ground, a family and a cave we defended to the death. Humans still have these fundamental traits; however we have evolved enough to realise that communication and co-operation was the progress to a better life and a better way to ensure survival, and therefore we socially evolved (with a nice cianti or a cold lager) to where we are today and the story goes on.

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  8. BbBennett

    I’m not convinced. You’ll have to explain why criminals and violent people and general haven’t seemed to evolve properly with everyone else.

    Maybe some citations are in order. A lot of what you say seems… rather heavy on opinion.

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  9. BbBennett

    “There are scientific explanations as to what is right or wrong. Regarding the survivability of our species we have evolved into a social animal and on the constitution of human nature are built the constitutions of human societies.”

    Cite those “explanations” please. Or just admit the fact that science can not answer exestential questions or explain the immaterial existence of things like morality.

    It MUST be tiring writing so many words that don’t mean anything!

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    1. sklyjd

      There is a few differing opinions out there, but most of them are based on evolutionary principles, therefore learn a bit about biological evolutionary influence on human life.
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution_of_morality
      https://www.psychologytoday.com/au/blog/the-nature-nurture-nietzsche-blog/201005/did-morality-evolve
      https://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/31/health/psychology/31book.html
      http://time.com/3816212/brain-murder-morality/
      If you disagree as you no doubt will, please offer your explanations supported by some real evidence from real scientists.

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      1. mrsmcmommy Post author

        It’s not that anyone disagrees with your theory. It’s just really flimsy to tell children not to hurt each other because they should have evolved not to.

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      2. sklyjd

        “It’s just really flimsy to tell children not to hurt each other because they should have evolved not to.”

        Evolution did not make us robots and take away our individuality. We all have different opinions, ideas, genes and various mental states of mind etc. And even though we all understand we should bring up children to be good citizens we all have a different idea on how that is achieved. Children will also form their own ideas and behaviour will be greatly influenced by others.

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  10. BbBennett

    We all have different opinions as to how to raise children. Which are wrong and which are right? Evolution can’t provide that info.

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    1. sklyjd

      I agree, however we evolved generally as nurturing, protective and caring parents. It is how these ideals are sometimes interpreted by certain individuals that are the problem.

      Evolution has laid the basic framework for our survival and existence on this Planet, however no human brain is exactly the same, our thinking, beliefs and actions can be very diverse.

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      1. BbBennett

        ” … we evolved generally as nurturing, protective and caring parents.”

        There is no objective, scientific evidence based on observation and repeatable experimentation that your statement is true.

        “It is how these ideals are sometimes interpreted by certain individuals that are the problem.”

        Ideals? IDEALS? I thought you didn’t deal with philosophy. Prove that “ideals” are a product of natural, material evolution or stop babbling like you think you know what you’re taking about… let alone what you believe.

        And if IDEALS are evolved… then there is no way you can have a “problem” with the way anyone “interprets” their evolved traits. If you threaten me or my family in any way I choose… I can kill you. No problem. I am evolved to protect me and my family and procreate. It you have a problem… then sorry… that’s your stupid religion talking, not rational evolution.

        “Evolution has laid the basic framework for our survival and existence on this Planet, however no human brain is exactly the same, our thinking, beliefs and actions can be very diverse.”

        I’ll copy that line and use it after the next school shooting or the next time you claim that religious people are the crazy ones. 😜

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      2. sklyjd

        “There is no objective, scientific evidence based on observation and repeatable experimentation that your statement is true.”

        It is not my job to educate people like you who simply use God to explain everything, go onto the internet and learn something useful.

        “Ideals? IDEALS? I thought you didn’t deal with philosophy. Prove that “ideals” are a product of natural, material evolution or stop babbling like you think you know what you’re taking about… let alone what you believe.”

        I never claimed ideals were evolved and philosophy does not always deal with reality.

        “And if IDEALS are evolved… then there is no way you can have a “problem” with the way anyone “interprets” their evolved traits. If you threaten me or my family in any way I choose… I can kill you. No problem. I am evolved to protect me and my family and procreate. It you have a problem… then sorry… that’s your stupid religion talking, not rational evolution.”

        Like I said ideals are not evolved, ideals come from forming ideas from choice. If you know it is inherently wrong to kill as most of us do, you have the freedom to decide otherwise, call it Gods given freewill if you like. If you have a problem understanding what a religion is please look it up in the dictionary, I think you will learn something new.

        “I’ll copy that line and use it after the next school shooting or the next time you claim that religious people are the crazy ones.”

        I did not claim all shooters were religious people, however it cannot be denied that many of them are.

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  11. BbBennett

    You have no idea how “educated” I am.

    And for what it’s worth, I have learned from about every one of your prophets of materialism and accidental, random life from nothing… soulless meat puppets haven’t the free will to reason themselves out of a paper bag; let alone define what is right or wrong, true or false.

    Branyan’s prediction was right. We haven’t read a coherent explanation of why it’s wrong to shoot someone for this entire thread.

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    1. sklyjd

      I do not understand what you are spouting about, I can only see that you are very good at making up names for atheists who you obviously do not like. I thought you may have had some ability to make a reasonable debate, however it seems I was wrong, you are just the same as your friend and you are Indoctrinated blind.

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      1. BbBennett

        The reason you can’t understand my reasonable debate is because your brain isn’t properly evolved as mine.

        You said so, so it must be true.

        “Evolution has laid the basic framework for our survival and existence on this Planet, however no human brain is exactly the same, our thinking, beliefs and actions can be very diverse.”

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      2. sklyjd

        I agree Bb Bennett, we all have our own thinking and beliefs, and some are out of this world. For example, I just watched what I considered should have been an amusing comedy on TV about American Christian radio host Harold Camping who categorically stated until he was blue in the face that the Rapture and Judgment Day would take place on May 21, 2011. Millions were sucked in and they interviewed people who actually left their employment, closed bank accounts and made ready for Jesus to come and take them to heaven.
        This is face palming stuff, it is so stupid I cannot even begin to believe these people were mentally stable.
        You see Bb Bennet the people who believe in a flat earth are possibly more rational than I ever thought, so can you at least see why I choose to be a “soulless meat puppet” ?

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      3. mrsmcmommy Post author

        Do either of you remember what my original post was about?

        I confess, I’m a little tired of getting off-topic notifications. I proved my point in the first 3-5 exchanges with Sklyjd, and now it looks like he’s just trying to bury his comments under dozens of new ones.

        I don’t want to scare new readers away from reading the comments just because there are now so many. Can we please let this rabbit trail end?

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  12. Pingback: Fly High, Self-Murderer! | Cultures at War

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